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 48 2014-12-27 01:35:45 <gmaxwell> apparently the tor controller port can now create hidden services: https://stem.torproject.org/tutorials/over_the_river.html
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 59 2014-12-27 01:57:05 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, horray
 60 2014-12-27 01:57:53 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, actually that just looks like it's modifying torrc and then SIGHUP
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 74 2014-12-27 03:03:02 <wumpus> yes that's possible, see also e.g. https://jordan-wright.github.io/blog/2014/10/06/creating-tor-hidden-services-with-python/
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 79 2014-12-27 03:07:21 * midnightmagic prods gmaxwell 
 80 2014-12-27 03:07:33 <midnightmagic> who was the bankrupt(ed?) turkey who spammed the blockchain?
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 82 2014-12-27 03:11:40 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, you mean sd?
 83 2014-12-27 03:12:59 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: There have been a number of "add your messages" services what went down because they were losing money, I'd have to go scraping browsing logs to find their names. Not memorable.
 84 2014-12-27 03:13:30 <gmaxwell> part of the reason people keep doing the same bad/useless things of and over again is that we forget the ones that fail and they think their attempt is novel.
 85 2014-12-27 03:14:51 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: bummer sounded like it used the control port.. Not so useful. In standard gnu/linux installs the user running bitcoin can't write to the torrc.
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 87 2014-12-27 03:17:31 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i cant actually tell what their codes doing, but it looks like it
 88 2014-12-27 03:18:05 <phantomcircuit> lots of abstraction...
 89 2014-12-27 03:18:32 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 90 2014-12-27 03:18:32 <phantomcircuit> Our *.onion address is fetched by reading the hidden service directory.
 91 2014-12-27 03:18:32 <phantomcircuit>     However, this directory is only readable by the tor user, so if unavailable
 92 2014-12-27 03:18:37 <phantomcircuit> oh well :(
 93 2014-12-27 03:18:37 <brand0> don't they know that namecoin is for spamming onto?
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123 2014-12-27 04:44:07 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5532 could use some ACKs
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125 2014-12-27 04:45:13 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: oh, that's too bad, I thought too it went through the control port
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127 2014-12-27 04:47:40 <wumpus> IIRC their control port interface does allow arbitrary setting changes so why not the hidden service config
128 2014-12-27 04:51:36 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, i suspect you can configure a hidden service through the control port
129 2014-12-27 04:51:43 <phantomcircuit> but you cant then figure out what it is
130 2014-12-27 04:51:54 <phantomcircuit> you cant get the onion address
131 2014-12-27 04:52:08 <gmaxwell> you also can't provide a key.
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133 2014-12-27 04:52:24 <wumpus> pointless, then
134 2014-12-27 04:52:53 <gmaxwell> see also: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1949#comment:12
135 2014-12-27 04:53:09 <wumpus> I wonder why tor resists  being usefully embeddable, or even usefully interacting with other software so much
136 2014-12-27 04:53:22 <brand0> unrelated: is signing data with a bitcoin key recommended against?
137 2014-12-27 04:53:39 <gmaxwell> wumpus: does it resist or i sit just development resources?
138 2014-12-27 04:53:56 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I vaguely remember it resists
139 2014-12-27 04:54:28 <gmaxwell> brand0: it's not generally useful... it's inadvisable in some cases. Bitcoin is not a general purpose data cryptography tool and misses many important features. Bitcoin keys generally should be completely ephemerial (used only once).
140 2014-12-27 04:54:35 <wumpus> gmaxwell: ie, there have been efforts to turn it into a library, but they want it to ship and be configured separately
141 2014-12-27 04:54:40 <gmaxwell> brand0: pgp (gpg) is a much better for "sign data".
142 2014-12-27 04:55:43 <brand0> yeah, that's what I thought ... I thought it was strange that coinbase does it
143 2014-12-27 04:55:51 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, when i've asked i was always told it had to do with the hidden services stuff being multiple lines
144 2014-12-27 04:55:54 <wumpus> using the same keys for multiple purposes is also usally not recommended
145 2014-12-27 04:57:13 <wumpus> although you could of course use unrelated secp256k1 keys, but then why use bitcoin keys at all
146 2014-12-27 04:57:59 <brand0> but, generally, i don't see a reason why not to (unless you believe ECC isn't to be trusted), and obviously coinbase doesn't either ...
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148 2014-12-27 05:01:02 <brand0> but if you don't trust ecc, then you shouldn't use bitcoin, right?
149 2014-12-27 05:01:36 <phantomcircuit> brand0, it's just bad engineering to reuse keys
150 2014-12-27 05:01:52 <gmaxwell> brand0: uh there is absolutely no promise in "ECC" that you won't hose your security that way.
151 2014-12-27 05:02:20 <gmaxwell> I can very easily construct a signature system that would easily compromise your security.
152 2014-12-27 05:03:06 <gmaxwell> We dodged several easy traps in bitcoin signmessage in the design, but that doesn't mean more remain... and with no PKI infrastructure, and no sane handling of large messages... well it has some uses but not many.
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154 2014-12-27 05:04:29 <brand0> so it's a little crazy that coinbase supports this as a feature, no?
155 2014-12-27 05:06:10 <wumpus> I'm not distrusting ecc, well at least not that much.
156 2014-12-27 05:07:09 <Luke-Jr> brand0: no, it's a standard Bitcoin feature, for better or worse
157 2014-12-27 05:07:14 <wumpus> but there are tons of other reason not to reuse keys apart from not trusting the signing, e.g. the privacy risk
158 2014-12-27 05:07:35 <Luke-Jr> afaik the topic is the signmessage?
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161 2014-12-27 05:10:57 <brand0> Luke-Jr, correct
162 2014-12-27 05:11:27 <brand0> I've heard people say to only use the address (privkey) once, but then there's the ability to sign, which directly conflicts with that
163 2014-12-27 05:11:30 <gmaxwell> brand0: in any case, it's not known bad. It's a fine feature to support. I don't know that I'd expect people to do be doing much with it.
164 2014-12-27 05:11:36 <brand0> so I was just wondering what general consensus was here
165 2014-12-27 05:12:20 <gmaxwell> brand0: it's useful for some things like providing evidence that you know keys on old transactions. Or providing settings to mining pools which use addresses purely for authentication.
166 2014-12-27 05:12:35 <gmaxwell> Then again, its currently completely incompatible with multisig.
167 2014-12-27 05:13:53 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it doesn't prove you know keys!
168 2014-12-27 05:14:30 <Luke-Jr> his example being one such case the signer doesn't know the key..
169 2014-12-27 05:15:07 <brand0> with Schneier saying don't use ecc, I'm trying to screw my head back on straight, thanks for the input all
170 2014-12-27 05:19:35 <maaku> brand0: ignore Schneier
171 2014-12-27 05:20:16 <gmaxwell> he's also talking about unrelated things.
172 2014-12-27 05:20:26 <gmaxwell> (NIST curves with NSA provided 'random' parameters)
173 2014-12-27 05:21:17 <brand0> jthat is true
174 2014-12-27 05:21:39 <brand0> but he does raise issues about the relative "newness" of discrete log, etc etc
175 2014-12-27 05:22:05 <maaku> it's not that new...
176 2014-12-27 05:22:24 <brand0> compared to prime factorization which is like, what, 2000 years old?
177 2014-12-27 05:23:29 <maaku> brand0: hardness of prime factorization wasn't even on the radar for nearly all of that time
178 2014-12-27 05:24:11 <maaku> i would rate the liklihood of screwing up an RSA implementation (there are so many ways to do that) as much higher than a break of discrete log
179 2014-12-27 05:24:39 <gmaxwell> uh discrete log is also a very old problem. Also, if you can compute discrete logs in an arbritary finite field that directly gives you factoring.
180 2014-12-27 05:24:48 <brand0> that's true, implementation trumps all most times
181 2014-12-27 05:24:55 <gmaxwell> (very old problem, e.g. also worked on by gauss)
182 2014-12-27 05:25:35 <brand0> do people ever come in here asking when bitcoin is going to implement latice crypto? (lulz)
183 2014-12-27 05:26:03 <maaku> brand0: anyway ECC parameters can be chosen such that the person who created the parameters has a back door to recover any private key
184 2014-12-27 05:26:16 <brand0> I'm aware
185 2014-12-27 05:26:28 <maaku> combine that with the fact that the 'recommended' NIST curves were generated by the NSA, that's probably what Schneier was talking about
186 2014-12-27 05:26:42 <maaku> it's got nothing to do with secp256k1 though
187 2014-12-27 05:26:46 <gmaxwell> maaku: uh thats not true as far as anyone knows, not for curves meeting particular safty criteria.
188 2014-12-27 05:27:02 <maaku> gmaxwell: if you choose the generator you can do that, no?
189 2014-12-27 05:27:23 <gmaxwell> maaku: no, if you choose the generator you can know the discrete log of a single additional point.
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191 2014-12-27 05:27:50 <gmaxwell> which is interesting, perhaps. But only in the context of protocols that need nothing up my sleeve points.
192 2014-12-27 05:27:55 <maaku> ah, my misunderstanding. that's significantly less interesting.
193 2014-12-27 05:28:28 <maaku> then what could Schneier be concerned over?
194 2014-12-27 05:28:42 <maaku> probably off-topic, sorry
195 2014-12-27 05:28:44 <brand0> he also pointed to two recent papers on the discrete log problem
196 2014-12-27 05:28:58 <brand0> and said that important progress is still being made in that area
197 2014-12-27 05:29:03 <gmaxwell> that there is some novel mathmatical weakness that no one (but the nsa knows anything about), and they carefully ground their random numbers to pick a one in a billion curve where the weakness applies.
198 2014-12-27 05:29:23 <brand0> and that cryptographic breakthroughs happen suddenly and can be devastating
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212 2014-12-27 06:01:57 <gmaxwell> I'm looking for getpeerinfo output from long running ipv4 reachable nodes, ideally a week of uptime or more, just making some quick measurements about hosts that agressively connect to everyone. I have four observations so far, but I'd really perfer to have eight.  0bining and PMing me the url is fine. email works too.
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214 2014-12-27 06:03:44 <wumpus> brand0: that doesn't exactly apply to ECC only :-)
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217 2014-12-27 06:06:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: how does 0.0.0.0:8333 have a 82.94% 30d uptime in your seeds data? :P
218 2014-12-27 06:07:13 <brand0> wumpus, that's true but the point was that since discrete log is ~10x newer than factorization that it's more likely for a major breakthrough
219 2014-12-27 06:07:44 <wumpus> brand0: that sounds like very inexact science
220 2014-12-27 06:08:19 <brand0> maybe, but it is kind of how crypto works in an abstract sense, the longer something been around the more people think of it as "proven"
221 2014-12-27 06:08:25 <wumpus> if you want to put it in economical terms it's not so much about newer but how many resources have been focused on it
222 2014-12-27 06:08:56 <gmaxwell> brand0: you seem to have helpfully ignored the point I made earlier that you can factor by solving discrete logs if you really have a generic improvement in solving discrete logs. (it's a subset)
223 2014-12-27 06:09:47 <brand0> gmaxwell, that's a good point
224 2014-12-27 06:09:51 <wumpus> oh, #bitcoin-dev
225 2014-12-27 06:10:05 <brand0> sorry, I musta missed where you said that, gmaxwell
226 2014-12-27 06:11:14 <wumpus> this is too philosophical for this channel, please move it to #bitcoin-wizards or #bitcoin
227 2014-12-27 06:11:19 <brand0> I think that we can all at least agree that the math isn't really at risk right now despite what people like Schneier say
228 2014-12-27 06:11:34 <brand0> lelz @ bitcoin-*
229 2014-12-27 06:11:42 * brand0 signing out
230 2014-12-27 06:11:57 <brand0> thanks for the discussion, gmaxwell, wumpus
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235 2014-12-27 06:22:39 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: the guy with 0.0.0.0 has some nice uptime. I worry he never upgrades his kernel though
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252 2014-12-27 07:31:46 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: ah, I thought you meant mastercoin or something more notable.  right-o, got it.
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256 2014-12-27 07:43:46 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: if you want some long-term reachable measurements I can provide such. .  or..  maybe not. my servers are dead. sorry.
257 2014-12-27 07:45:12 <gmaxwell> oops.
258 2014-12-27 07:45:23 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: lolwtf?
259 2014-12-27 07:47:10 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: posted in public for notification purposes.
260 2014-12-27 07:47:19 <midnightmagic> apologies channel who have no idea wtf i'm talking about :)
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280 2014-12-27 08:43:22 <midnightmagic> sweet, the PPC machine running bitcoin seems to have died!
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285 2014-12-27 09:00:00 <midnightmagic> nope, PPC machine is not dead. IP address reverted to DHCP due to (slightly) misconfigured /etc/network/interfaces -- and it's at approximately my DHCP lease renewal period beginning from the machine's uptime that bitcoind segfaulted in. (4 days)
286 2014-12-27 09:00:09 <midnightmagic> I have a coredump.
287 2014-12-27 09:00:50 <Diablo-D3> speaking of dns
288 2014-12-27 09:00:55 * Diablo-D3 just rebuilt how his network does dns
289 2014-12-27 09:02:36 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: sweet.
290 2014-12-27 09:02:53 <gmaxwell> can you attach a debugger and get backtraces?
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292 2014-12-27 09:03:04 <midnightmagic> yep, just about to 0bin one sec.
293 2014-12-27 09:03:50 <midnightmagic> http://0bin.net/paste/EKKrVn2970CIZeyL#nK0rHsWaIPqrJGSGjrrS6UI6ZnME6dYG0LfkJafz94S
294 2014-12-27 09:04:08 <midnightmagic> just peeking into thread 1 a bit more now.
295 2014-12-27 09:04:55 <gmaxwell> could it have run out of space? it seems to have crashed while in Shutdown()
296 2014-12-27 09:05:50 <midnightmagic> /dev/mapper/cryo                                       78011876 29486384  48525492  38% /home
297 2014-12-27 09:05:54 <midnightmagic> no, plenty of room.
298 2014-12-27 09:06:36 <jonasschnelli> michagogo, yes. the speech-bubble for the debug-window is probably not the best. What about that one: http://jonasschnelli.ch/device-desktop.png
299 2014-12-27 09:06:52 <gmaxwell>  /join ##metricscrews
300 2014-12-27 09:07:04 <gmaxwell> ignore, mistpaste
301 2014-12-27 09:07:29 <midnightmagic> the underlying volume is a luks volume.
302 2014-12-27 09:07:29 <jonasschnelli> im asking myself if "debug-window" is the right word for the "info-/rpc-console/network-traffic/peer-table"-window
303 2014-12-27 09:07:59 <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr, you probably had a question regarding the CC BY-SA license?
304 2014-12-27 09:08:19 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: speculation: short-read of block data in the middle of sync?
305 2014-12-27 09:08:30 <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: ?
306 2014-12-27 09:10:16 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: whats the debug log show? anything?
307 2014-12-27 09:11:18 <midnightmagic> yep one sec.
308 2014-12-27 09:11:23 <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr, in the channel-log i saw that you had analyzed CC-BY-3.0? The icons we use ate CC-SA 3.0. I think this goes well even with the color transform.
309 2014-12-27 09:11:34 <midnightmagic> http://0bin.net/paste/gvmGTsSGm161h1cd#d7c+C3jvjL2uuU69X7JiX9-YArHtEjovKm44hSBwiIp
310 2014-12-27 09:12:27 <midnightmagic> i'll save the core and the debug.log file (this time) and restart it in a moment.
311 2014-12-27 09:12:36 <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: it came up re the network-toggle icon
312 2014-12-27 09:12:59 <jonasschnelli> Luke-Jr, ah yes. That's probably a different license.
313 2014-12-27 09:13:27 <jonasschnelli> Will create one from the scratch with no license (PD).
314 2014-12-27 09:13:38 <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: MIT license like the rest is preferable IMO
315 2014-12-27 09:13:52 <jonasschnelli> But i'm not sure if the network-switch makes it into the master
316 2014-12-27 09:14:06 <Luke-Jr> ?
317 2014-12-27 09:14:17 <midnightmagic> do I care about the leveldb corruption complaint? is it smart enough to recover itself?
318 2014-12-27 09:14:31 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: no it's probably actually corrupted now.
319 2014-12-27 09:14:36 <midnightmagic> don't really want to wait another 6-9 days for it to sync.
320 2014-12-27 09:14:45 <midnightmagic> :-/
321 2014-12-27 09:14:52 <gmaxwell> reindex should fix it, and will be at least somewhat faster than that.
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324 2014-12-27 09:18:30 <midnightmagic> huh. that's annoying. leveldb doesn't appear to be in the debian wheezy ppc repo
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327 2014-12-27 09:25:37 <cool_asian> Anyone there ?
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333 2014-12-27 09:32:47 lclc_bnc is now known as lclc
334 2014-12-27 09:34:49 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: it's not normally distributed freestanding.
335 2014-12-27 09:35:08 benrcole1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
336 2014-12-27 09:35:51 <midnightmagic> ..  and now I've discovered for the first time that there are no easily-located leveldb check/repair utilities..?
337 2014-12-27 09:38:58 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: that's a continuing source of problems; you can hardly find MIT licensed graphics, most artists prefer the CC-something licenses
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342 2014-12-27 09:43:06 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: not saying we can't use others at all, just that if someone's making them specifically for Bitcoin Core, they should use MIT
343 2014-12-27 09:44:05 <gmaxwell> by-4.0 is a much better license than the 3.0 stuff and not arguably gratitiously incompatible; but yea, for our own stuff they should be licensed as MIT.
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371 2014-12-27 11:01:59 <midnightmagic> bleh, helpful hint: don't experimentally run RepairDB on a pre-existing uncompressed leveldb, with a leveldb that has compression enabled. :-D
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373 2014-12-27 11:04:33 <wumpus> yes, I made that mistake also once, even just opening the database is enough to make it unusable in bitcoin's leveldb which has no compression
374 2014-12-27 11:04:36 xabbix has joined
375 2014-12-27 11:05:00 <wumpus> ie, was using some variant of python-leveldb which builds its own leveldb... oops
376 2014-12-27 11:05:21 <gmaxwell> hm with headers first breaking block reading tools in 0.10 perhaps we should have done the block obfscuation thing. Oh well.
377 2014-12-27 11:06:02 <wumpus> 'should have', bah, we can't fix the world in one release
378 2014-12-27 11:06:33 Raziel has joined
379 2014-12-27 11:07:54 <gmaxwell> well it had sort of fallen off the radar, seems everyone on windows has given up running bitcoin. :)  I always felt a little mixed on it just because I don't want deal with someone misconstruing the change as being intended to break some tool or another.
380 2014-12-27 11:08:03 <wumpus> well maybe one release that is infinitely far away
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382 2014-12-27 11:08:36 <wumpus> sure, but there's been so many different issues like that :)
383 2014-12-27 11:09:03 <wumpus> we can still do it for 0.11, and then only for new installs (or maybe when the user provides some conversion flags)
384 2014-12-27 11:09:54 <gmaxwell> well for blocks we should probably just have a flag in the index that says if the block is obfscuated or not. then it can apply to new blocks going forward. hm but you're right in terms of breaking things.
385 2014-12-27 11:10:16 _yoy_ has joined
386 2014-12-27 11:10:21 <gmaxwell> chainstate is a bit more complex since there isn't really room to store a flag.
387 2014-12-27 11:10:46 <wumpus> sure, and the reindex tool and linearize could  detect an alternative magic value and regard it as obfuscated block
388 2014-12-27 11:10:56 <Luke-Jr> would upstream LevelDB accept an obfuscation patch, or would that be forking LevelDB for good?
389 2014-12-27 11:11:14 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I don't think we'd want to change leveldb, just mask the keys/values going into it.
390 2014-12-27 11:11:29 <Luke-Jr> will that be sufficient?
391 2014-12-27 11:11:38 <wumpus> gmaxwell: plenty space for a global flag though, I'd really like the chainstate to be either obfuscated or not obfuscated, nothing in between
392 2014-12-27 11:11:47 <wumpus> gmaxwell: too many complexity and scope for error there
393 2014-12-27 11:12:38 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yes, the point is just to obfuscate signatures and such that people put in it and can be detected by e.g. virus scanners
394 2014-12-27 11:12:51 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: to avoid the 'whoops, it deleted one of the database files' problem on windows
395 2014-12-27 11:12:55 Raziel has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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397 2014-12-27 11:13:13 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: right, I just wasn't sure if it was possible to prevent that by only obfuscating keys/values
398 2014-12-27 11:13:14 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I don't know how it couldn't be sufficient.  There is also the question of the stronger form where you replace the txid with H(txid)   and encrypt the coins with H(2||txid) so that the user doesn't even have access to the data themselves.
399 2014-12-27 11:13:33 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: It should be, no third party provided data should show up elsewhere.
400 2014-12-27 11:13:47 <gmaxwell> (obviously ignoring things like peers.dat)
401 2014-12-27 11:14:34 <wumpus> well if you can encode virus signatures into your IPv6 address+port+nServices :-)
402 2014-12-27 11:15:51 <gmaxwell> I did find some stupid signature that was only 16 bytes long.
403 2014-12-27 11:16:01 <wumpus> gmaxwell: and it should be possible to disable it w/ a flag, on slower/embedded systems the extra database query overhead could be a problem, especially if the obfuscation is more involved
404 2014-12-27 11:16:13 RazielXYZ has joined
405 2014-12-27 11:16:32 <wumpus> if it's just some Xor pattern I'm not worried
406 2014-12-27 11:16:32 <Luke-Jr> enabled by default on Windows only? :P
407 2014-12-27 11:16:59 gimmetime has joined
408 2014-12-27 11:17:07 <gmaxwell> It should be cheap enough to not worry about regardless.
409 2014-12-27 11:17:13 <wumpus> for the blocks it's less of an issue
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411 2014-12-27 11:19:07 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
412 2014-12-27 11:19:08 <wumpus> btw the fee estimate file is also still incomatible between 32 and 64 bit, probably should be  fixed before 0.10 as well now that I think about it
413 2014-12-27 11:20:54 gotoalberto has quit (Quit: (null))
414 2014-12-27 11:21:01 <wumpus> (just a matter of changing a data type, ie https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin/commit/c32fbeb50ea8748cf07c5fcf2c5281843ccfbd4b )
415 2014-12-27 11:22:22 <Luke-Jr> does that code otherwise produce portable files?
416 2014-12-27 11:22:29 RazielXYZ is now known as Raziel
417 2014-12-27 11:23:33 <wumpus> yes, I think so. my checks of the serialization code didn't find any other instances of architecture-dependent types being serialized
418 2014-12-27 11:24:45 <wumpus> (well, bare char, but that's a story in itself, we don't appear to use it anywhere to do arithmetic with)
419 2014-12-27 11:25:23 <wumpus> of course, 'int' is also differently sized on some architectures, I didn't check for that
420 2014-12-27 11:26:11 <wumpus> ideally all the typed used in serialization would be uint32_t int32_t uint16_t etc, my bigendian changes make a little progress toward that
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452 2014-12-27 12:16:42 <bedeho> does bitcoinqt use one wallet file for both test and mainnet?
453 2014-12-27 12:17:09 <jonasschnelli> bedeho no
454 2014-12-27 12:17:29 <jonasschnelli> testnet files lies within the testnet folder in the current <datadir>
455 2014-12-27 12:18:06 <bedeho> thanks
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458 2014-12-27 12:22:06 <jonasschnelli> is there a significant reason why there are variables like "pwalletMain" in global scope instead of a singleton pattern like a potential possible walletManager::getInstance()->getWalletId(<id>)?
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472 2014-12-27 12:49:54 <sipa> jonasschnelli: no, apart from the fact that nobody changed it
473 2014-12-27 12:50:04 belcher has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
474 2014-12-27 12:50:12 <jonasschnelli> sipa, okay. thanks.
475 2014-12-27 12:50:15 <sipa> also, we don't actually want a singleton... we want multiple wallets
476 2014-12-27 12:51:08 <jonasschnelli> Yes. But maybe a CWalletManager as singleton?
477 2014-12-27 12:51:28 hashtag_ has joined
478 2014-12-27 12:51:31 <jonasschnelli> Like CWalletManager::getInstance()->getWalletWithID(<id>)
479 2014-12-27 12:51:40 sarid has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
480 2014-12-27 12:51:49 <sipa> whatever :)
481 2014-12-27 12:51:56 <jonasschnelli> hehe
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485 2014-12-27 12:53:53 <sipa> i'm not convinced that a ::getInstance() has any benefit over just a global, apart from helping against a "oooo! globals are bad!" mentality
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488 2014-12-27 12:55:02 <jonasschnelli> sipa, we could probably add logic to a CWalletManager like getting pub keys from all wallets, etc.
489 2014-12-27 12:55:49 <jonasschnelli> of course you could also implement this with static functions... but IMO code is better readable with clear singleton patterns
490 2014-12-27 12:56:07 hashtag_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
491 2014-12-27 12:56:14 <jonasschnelli> and never know when somebody once instantiate another walletManager object
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497 2014-12-27 13:03:15 <bedeho> jonasschnelli : why would calling RPC "getbalance 1" not include balance from transactions with way more than 1 confirmation?
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502 2014-12-27 13:06:12 <bedeho> never mind, figured it out, bitcoin-cli interprets 1 as the account
503 2014-12-27 13:06:14 <jonasschnelli> bedeho, first param is "account". Check "help getbalance" and do "getbalance "*" 1"
504 2014-12-27 13:06:22 <jonasschnelli> bedeho, right
505 2014-12-27 13:06:24 <bedeho> yeah, thanks though!
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514 2014-12-27 13:24:40 <sipa> jonasschnelli: not arguing against a wallet manager at all; i'm arguing that having a getInstance method is really not better than having a global
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549 2014-12-27 14:22:07 <wumpus> oh please no CWidgetManagers in bitcoin
550 2014-12-27 14:23:06 <sipa> wumpus: wallet
551 2014-12-27 14:23:19 <wumpus> adding too many layers of abstraction, java style, doesn't make the code more readable
552 2014-12-27 14:23:35 <wumpus> CWalletManagerSupervisorFactoryScriptSourceInstanceManager
553 2014-12-27 14:23:46 <jcorgan> ...Factory
554 2014-12-27 14:23:46 <sipa> needs a Visitor and an Adapter
555 2014-12-27 14:23:57 <wumpus> heh
556 2014-12-27 14:24:11 <sipa> oh, and a Factory or Manager must be Singleton
557 2014-12-27 14:24:29 <wumpus> oh course, and dependency injection configured with xml files
558 2014-12-27 14:24:44 <sipa> yes, overriding all type safety the language provides
559 2014-12-27 14:24:45 <jeremias> dependancy injection saves the world economy
560 2014-12-27 14:24:51 <jeremias> by creating lots of jobs
561 2014-12-27 14:25:14 <jeremias> only for programmers, though
562 2014-12-27 14:25:19 <wumpus> it also helps the pharma industry by creating lots of headaches
563 2014-12-27 14:26:36 <wumpus> anyhow, if you don't really need a manager class, don't create one
564 2014-12-27 14:27:03 <jcorgan> could be worse: http://cube-drone.com/2014_11_16-99_Ingenuity.html
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568 2014-12-27 14:28:27 <sipa> https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition
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572 2014-12-27 14:29:47 <wumpus> LOOOL
573 2014-12-27 14:30:47 slick2 has joined
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575 2014-12-27 14:35:11 <xenog> sipa: very good one!
576 2014-12-27 14:36:36 cbeams has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
577 2014-12-27 14:36:44 Quanttek has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
578 2014-12-27 14:38:21 <jcorgan> lol, just sent this off to my brother, who is a java-based middleware developer for internal "enterprise" IT software
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582 2014-12-27 14:41:28 <dgenr8> lol "motherf..."
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585 2014-12-27 14:49:59 <gmaxwell> wumpus: you'd not seen that? yea. well it would be funnier if it weren't true.
586 2014-12-27 14:50:19 <gmaxwell> I think it didn't quite have enough crazy autogenerated boilerplate produced by people who only know how to click ide buttons.
587 2014-12-27 14:52:52 sol__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
588 2014-12-27 14:54:05 <wumpus> no, hadn't seen that one yet :-) seen enough code like it though, mostly  java, although some C++ projects tried to copy it especially when OOP was the buzzword of the day
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607 2014-12-27 15:01:40 <wumpus> many of it just gives a veneer of flexibility but serves to obfuscate what happens, e.g. singletons are a wooly abstraction of globals, if you don't like global state, you shouldn't like singletons
608 2014-12-27 15:02:56 <gmaxwell> or a veneer of respectability.
609 2014-12-27 15:03:08 <wumpus> yes
610 2014-12-27 15:03:12 <gmaxwell> "Goto is bad; fill your code with returns"
611 2014-12-27 15:03:33 <wumpus> *seeming* to make to code better
612 2014-12-27 15:03:46 <sipa> yeah, people learn that globals are bad, but forgot why they are bad
613 2014-12-27 15:03:56 <sipa> then find patterns to avoid the symptom, but not the problem
614 2014-12-27 15:04:41 <wumpus> just make a few extra objects and interfaces around it
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618 2014-12-27 15:16:11 <maaku> sipa: god I wish all managers were singletons
619 2014-12-27 15:16:35 <Diablo-D3> Your wish has been granted.
620 2014-12-27 15:16:49 ahmed_ is now known as ahmed_afk
621 2014-12-27 15:16:51 <maaku> Diablo-D3: thanks god!
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627 2014-12-27 15:33:29 <jonasschnelli> Okay. I slowly come into the coding style of bitcoin...
628 2014-12-27 15:34:19 <sipa> :)
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631 2014-12-27 15:37:49 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: let's not make anything global at all when we get rid of pwalletmain, e.g. just pass the container or manager of wallets to the RPC server and the GUI
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636 2014-12-27 15:46:42 <jonasschnelli> wumpus, Okay. But either we have a global wallet-container (array) in the global scope or we pass around a instance of a manager (would be more my thing).
637 2014-12-27 15:47:04 bsm117532 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
638 2014-12-27 15:47:10 <sipa> jonasschnelli: please have a look at codeshark's earlier multiwallet patch
639 2014-12-27 15:47:47 Adlai has joined
640 2014-12-27 15:48:17 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: yes, just pass the objects around, as in the UI. Although I see three instances of pwalletMain usage snuck into it.
641 2014-12-27 15:48:20 <jonasschnelli> sipa, okay, will do
642 2014-12-27 15:48:51 <sipa> jonasschnelli: it's very outdated, but it did indeed introduce a walletmanager (i think it should rather be called walletcollection, though), which handles loading/finding/unloading wallets
643 2014-12-27 15:49:47 <jonasschnelli> wumpus, yes. I think this is fine if we init the manager in AppInit and pass it around. But the singleton idea was more to prevent to pass around the instance to every sub-object-of-sub-objects. But didn't have a look at pwalletMain consumers.
644 2014-12-27 15:49:55 <wumpus> that's fine, I realized the problem is not having a walletcollection/manager class, but having it global in scope e.g. a singleton
645 2014-12-27 15:50:52 <jonasschnelli> I see the point that a singleton is more or less the same thing like keeping something in the global scope and having some static functions (like getWalletWithID()).
646 2014-12-27 15:51:03 <wumpus> BTW there is a LoadWallet signal, but currently it's global
647 2014-12-27 15:51:08 <jonasschnelli> But i once heard that the bitcoin source-code should be hard to read... :)
648 2014-12-27 15:51:26 <sipa> *should* be? what?
649 2014-12-27 15:52:12 <jonasschnelli> sorry. wrong english. I've read that bitcoins source-code is hard to read.
650 2014-12-27 15:52:24 <sipa> try reading 0.3.17 :)
651 2014-12-27 15:52:43 <sipa> (not saying it's that much easier now, but it's also doing a lot more...)
652 2014-12-27 15:52:48 <wumpus> yes, but if the goal is to reduce global state, which I wholeheartily agree with because it makes for harder-to-understand and debug side effects, we certainly don't want to introduce singletons which just wrap it in a layer of respectability
653 2014-12-27 15:53:27 <jonasschnelli> wumpus, okay. Let me try to not produce a oo overdose and still keep it snappy and readable.
654 2014-12-27 15:53:40 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: thanks :)
655 2014-12-27 15:55:40 hearn has joined
656 2014-12-27 15:57:03 <jonasschnelli> what was the issue of CodeShark 's multiwallet patch (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2184)? Lack of reviewing/testing?
657 2014-12-27 15:57:54 <wumpus> IIRC it was pretty close before a release so we didn't want to merge it immediately, and then it went out of sync and wasn't rebased
658 2014-12-27 15:58:13 <wumpus> but yes, lack of reviewing/testing was, and still is a big issue for wallet patches
659 2014-12-27 15:58:28 <jonasschnelli> he introduced CWalletManager(); :-)
660 2014-12-27 15:58:49 <sipa> yes
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662 2014-12-27 15:59:18 <wumpus> codeshark stopped maintaining his patches at some point and went off to his own wallet project
663 2014-12-27 15:59:43 <jonasschnelli> Okay. At first sight it looks pretty good.
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665 2014-12-27 16:00:02 <wumpus> (coinvault or such)
666 2014-12-27 16:00:24 <sipa> did we ever merge that patch to get rid of the rpctable locking, and push the locking down?
667 2014-12-27 16:01:43 <jonasschnelli> but yes. It looks like that it takes a lot of energy to bring in such a patch into the master...
668 2014-12-27 16:01:59 Guest65546 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
669 2014-12-27 16:02:00 <sipa> now is the time :)
670 2014-12-27 16:02:03 <jonasschnelli> Is there no tester recruiting effort? bitcointalk or some?
671 2014-12-27 16:02:19 <wumpus> I don't remember re: RPC locking patch
672 2014-12-27 16:02:33 <wumpus> I don't think so though
673 2014-12-27 16:02:45 <wumpus> too many pulls open
674 2014-12-27 16:04:02 lclc_bnc has joined
675 2014-12-27 16:04:23 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5107
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680 2014-12-27 16:07:26 <wumpus> damnit I checked it in detail, acked it, and so did sipa, but lost track of it
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683 2014-12-27 16:09:47 <gmaxwell> I think I whined on IRC along the general lines of #include <generic_vague_concern_about_peppering_the_code_with_avoidable_locks.h>
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687 2014-12-27 16:13:27 <wumpus> ok doesn't look to bad to rebase
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689 2014-12-27 16:14:17 <wumpus> well it doesn't introduce new (avoidable) locks, it just makes them explicit
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701 2014-12-27 16:25:46 <legendary> wumpus:How does the rebasing actually work?
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719 2014-12-27 16:55:24 <phantomcircuit> sipa, can you sort the list of seed nodes? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5532
720 2014-12-27 16:55:41 <sipa> yes, will do
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725 2014-12-27 16:58:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: thoughts on the filter script I sent you?
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729 2014-12-27 17:04:21 <sipa> did not see it?
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732 2014-12-27 17:05:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: https://people.xiph.org/~greg/seed_filter.py
733 2014-12-27 17:06:32 <wumpus> firelegend: it works by applying the diff between commits A end B, where A is the parent of the commit B that your want to rebase to another commit C
734 2014-12-27 17:06:34 <gmaxwell> Basically past some initial sanity checks it limits the output to two highest uptime nodes per ASN to avoid the case now were we get a dozen strange nodes on the same VPS, having more network diversity is good (e.g. if the internet is partitiond you're more likely to find a surviving chunk)
735 2014-12-27 17:07:00 <wumpus> firelegend: see also man git-rebase
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763 2014-12-27 17:44:36 <michagogo> jonasschnelli: heh, the client on my phone shows images on a black background, so that (I assume black-on-transparent) image doesn't show at all
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767 2014-12-27 17:53:52 <wumpus> michagogo: luke-jr's patch recolors the icons according to your theme
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772 2014-12-27 18:09:45 <michagogo> 8:02:35 <gmaxwell> I'm looking for getpeerinfo output from long running ipv4 reachable nodes, ideally a week of uptime or more, just making some quick measurements about hosts that agressively connect to everyone. I have four observations so far, but I'd really perfer to have eight.  0bining and PMing me the url is fine. email works too.
773 2014-12-27 18:09:48 cbeams has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
774 2014-12-27 18:10:06 <michagogo> gmaxwell: sorry, if you'd asked me a week ago I would have had one to give you
775 2014-12-27 18:10:51 <michagogo> I was running master, mainnet and testnet, IPv4/IPv6/onion
776 2014-12-27 18:11:56 <michagogo> On a VPS that someone was providing for free (#fuslvz), but she decided that the host node was too expensive to keep running
777 2014-12-27 18:12:11 <michagogo> 13:08:33 <gmaxwell> well it had sort of fallen off the radar, seems everyone on windows has given up running bitcoin. :)  I always felt a little mixed on it just because I don't want deal with someone misconstruing the change as being intended to break some tool or another.
778 2014-12-27 18:12:22 * michagogo runs the GUI on Windows
779 2014-12-27 18:12:58 <michagogo> wumpus: Ah, that's nice. I was referring to the link he pinged me in here with
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782 2014-12-27 18:13:35 <michagogo> wumpus: btw, I saw gavinandresen pushed sigs -- is the detached OS X sig posted somewhere?
783 2014-12-27 18:14:03 <wumpus> michagogo: no, he didn't use that, just did manual signing, we'll have to see about that next time
784 2014-12-27 18:14:22 <michagogo> Ah, okay
785 2014-12-27 18:14:33 <michagogo> (Any specific reason?)
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792 2014-12-27 18:19:49 <wumpus> just too busy around this time of the year
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808 2014-12-27 18:41:09 <michagogo> Fair enough.
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887 2014-12-27 21:35:07 <Luke-Jr> ok, 5542 fixed to make Travis happy
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895 2014-12-27 21:52:14 <WolfGoethe> Hello wonderful folks. I am trying to prevent double spends on my isystem. when blocknotify fires, and I call gettransaction RPC for transaction which was included in previous block, will I get always in tx info that it has 2 confirmations or there may occur race condition ?
896 2014-12-27 21:53:11 <Luke-Jr> WolfGoethe: if a transaction is double spent, it will be <=0
897 2014-12-27 21:53:34 <Luke-Jr> WolfGoethe: note this can occur regardless of how many confirmations it had before, but you can probably stop checking at 10 blocks or so
898 2014-12-27 21:53:46 <Luke-Jr> maybe earlier if you have good insurance or something
899 2014-12-27 21:54:13 <WolfGoethe> we are tracking pending transactions until they reach 3 confirmations. this is our method
900 2014-12-27 21:54:53 <WolfGoethe> yeah lets leave the double spends out of it for now, sorry
901 2014-12-27 21:55:21 <WolfGoethe> I've been reading about the 0 confirmation confidence and in this latest topic it says about bitpay and mycelium using watching how many nodes picked up tx
902 2014-12-27 21:55:21 <WolfGoethe> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2qe4ov/help_me_understand_how_do_physical_merchants/cn59ls9
903 2014-12-27 21:55:21 <WolfGoethe> Do you know any resources where it says how to implement this?
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905 2014-12-27 21:56:06 <brand0> namecoin uses 12 block confirms
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907 2014-12-27 21:56:39 <LeMiner> Anyone here that has/can get a Poisson graph for the probability of a block within X minute?
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909 2014-12-27 21:58:55 <michagogo> ;;help tblb
910 2014-12-27 21:58:56 <gribble> (tblb <interval>) -- Calculate the expected time between blocks which take at least <interval> seconds to create. To provide the <interval> argument, a nested 'seconds' command may be helpful.
911 2014-12-27 22:00:15 <LeMiner> ;;tblb 600
912 2014-12-27 22:00:16 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 10 minutes and 0 seconds to generate is 27 minutes and 18 seconds
913 2014-12-27 22:01:01 <WolfGoethe> where is the blocknotify code in the bitcoin source?
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915 2014-12-27 22:02:36 <LeMiner> ;;tblb 1
916 2014-12-27 22:02:37 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 1 second to generate is 9 minutes and 8 seconds
917 2014-12-27 22:04:54 <Luke-Jr> WolfGoethe: um, if you don't check for double spends, waiting 3 blocks is worthless
918 2014-12-27 22:05:13 <Luke-Jr> the whole purpose of waiting N blocks is to check for double spends..
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920 2014-12-27 22:06:12 <WolfGoethe> yes, you are correct. the question still remains tho
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922 2014-12-27 22:07:08 <WolfGoethe> the eventual goal is of course to track double spends. we do this by figuring out when it is safe to release a merchants funds... so we are wondering about the blocknotify
923 2014-12-27 22:07:45 <WolfGoethe> when blocknotify fires, and I call gettransaction RPC for transaction which was included in previous block, will I get always in tx info that it has 2 confirmations or there may occur race condition ?
924 2014-12-27 22:08:04 <Luke-Jr> WolfGoethe: either 2 or 0
925 2014-12-27 22:08:18 <Luke-Jr> when blocknotify is executed, the new block is live
926 2014-12-27 22:08:28 <Luke-Jr> I suppose it could be 3+ too
927 2014-12-27 22:08:47 <Luke-Jr> if another block comes in quickly after that one
928 2014-12-27 22:09:17 <dgenr8> the latest double-spend fashion seems to be including a wee payment to a dice address, so certain miners will prefer the double-spend when they see it
929 2014-12-27 22:09:24 <WolfGoethe> ok, thank you! when it is executed the new block is live. thank you Luke!
930 2014-12-27 22:09:49 <WolfGoethe> which means that all transactions' confirmations were already incremented by 1
931 2014-12-27 22:10:26 <Luke-Jr> yes
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968 2014-12-27 23:20:06 <austeritysucks> im trying to set up a system that generates an receive address and upon a Confirmed transaction of a given amount, will let me intiatie a  delivery of digital goods and then take 1% to an offline wallet and send 99% to a given associated address.
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970 2014-12-27 23:20:25 <austeritysucks> given that i'm only using generated addresses as a passthrough, would blockchain.info API be a sensible solution or is there something better out there ?
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984 2014-12-27 23:54:26 <michagogo> austeritysucks: using blockchain.info is almost never a sensible solution.
985 2014-12-27 23:54:41 <michagogo> This is probably something for #bitcoin, though.
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